Josh and I recently got into a debate about some of the great rivalaries of all time, based on an idea I had for this blog. Specifically Dodgers - Giants vs. Red Sox - Yankees became heated (I prefer the former for such a list, he the latter.)
Some of my ideas were all over the place:
- celtic - rangers ("the old firm")
- harvard - yale football/other sports ("the game"...what about oxford/cambridge?)
- celtics - lakers basketball
- army - navy football
- michigan - ohio state football
- olympiacos - panathinaikos basketball/other sports ("derby of the eternal enemies")-
- UNC - duke basketball-
- real madrid - fc barcelona soccer ("el clasico/el classic")
- india - pakistan cricket (most watched game in the world, edging out the super bowl)
- trination rivalary, rugby union
- auburn - alabama
- maple leaves - canadiens
- packers - bears
- texas - oklahoma
- ucla - usc
- usc - notre dame
- hopkins - maryland lacrosse
- various English derbies, etc.
This didn't include individal rivalaries (e.g. Ali-Frazier.)
But the concept was too broad to be workable. So many countries, sports, leagues, metrics (is it based on history? current state of things? passion? violence? even handedness? championship implications? cultural or national implications? iconic moments? and so on.)
It lead me to an easier question -- whats the greatest defunct rivalary?
Is there a better historically great but currently defunct rivalarly by two teams that still exist* than Pitt - Penn State? If so, please name it.
* Therefore you can't name USSR - USA in olympics, Yugoslavia - USSR basketball, Expos vs. Blue Jays, etc.
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I'm glad you said this:
ReplyDelete"But the concept was too broad to be workable. So many countries, sports, leagues, metrics (is it based on history? current state of things? passion? violence? even handedness? championship implications? cultural or national implications? iconic moments? and so on.)"
There's no way to measure things like this.
I'm too tired to think, so I'll answer your question with a question. What circumstances can come about to make a rivalry defunct? Perhaps if we came up with a list of such things it would be easier to come up with such rivalries.
The only ones that come to mind include changes in structure - in college, conferences, in the pros, divisions.
Can we be more specific so we can start brainstorming?
After reading Josh's post and getting excited about NCAA sports, I came up with a defunct rivalry. Allow me to digress for a minute first.
ReplyDeleteAs a dedicated, lifetime small market fan, I always root for the little guy. So I'm fascinated with rivalries or even regular season games that nobody talks about. When UTEP plays Pacific, I'm watching. When Virgina Commonwealth plays....well, you get the point.
So with Midwest roots, I always have an eye for local rivalries as well. One that springs to mind is the University of North Dakota and North Dakota State University football teams.
They had a storied rivalry in Division II college football that was not only heated, but producted several National Championships. But in 2004, NDSU made to move to Division I and left UND and their rivalry behind. The great news is that the rivalry will return from hiatus soon as this is the first year of UND's transition to D-I.
Ok. To get even more local, the Augustana Vikings (D-II) and the University of Sioux Falls Cougars (NAIA) used to have a great rivalry. Augie is a decent D-II team but USF currently is tearing up NAIA, playing in 3 national title games in the past five years and winning two of them.
This rivalry should also be renewed as USF is now making the transition to Division II.
Giants-49ers, 1984-1990
ReplyDeleteBetween 1984 and 1990, these two teams won 5 of the 7 Super Bowls. They met in the playoffs in 1984 (Divisional Round), 1985 (Wild Card), 1986 (Divisional) and 1990 (NFC Championship). The Giants won 3 out of 4, but the rivalry was much more tightly fought than that would indicate.
Longtime referee Jerry Markbreit calls the 1990 game the best he was ever a part of (15-13 - last second Bahr FG, set up by late Roger Craig fumble; Leonard Marshall almost breaks Joe Montana in half.)
During that time they also played some thrilling regular season games.
1986: Giants 21, San Francisco 17
San Fran led 17-0 in Candlestick at the half. Giants open second half with famous Bavaro play were he breaks like 6 tackles and drags Ronnie Lott for 15 yards.
1988: San Fran 20, Giants 17 (Giants Stadium)
I remember being heartbroken over this one. Giants led 17-13 with like a minute left. Montana heaves the ball to a streaking Jerry Rice down the right sideline who was pretty well-covered by Mark Collins. Terry Kinard was coming over the top but instead of knocking the ball down or tacking Rice, he ran into Collins, and Rice waltzed into the end zone.
Both teams finished the year 10-6. San Fran won the Super Bowl, Giants missed playoffs.
1989:49ers 34, Giants 24.
Two powerhouses (Niners 14-2, Giants 12-4). Game open to suggestion late
1990: 49ers 7, Giants 3
Late in the game, Lott taunted Simms after the Giants missed a 4th down conversion deep in 49er territory. After the game they were at it again. Al Michaels' comment: "They're saying, 'see you in January.' Giants would exact revenge that January.
Maryland - West Virginia is a good football game that is in a three year dormant phase, though it'll be back. Its probably Maryland's most even handed rivalary game since Penn State always beat them, Navy had a period of decline (and polite fans), and Virginia prefers their more heated rivalry game with Virginia Tech.
ReplyDeleteIts nowhere near Pitt - Penn State though.
Of course, the Iron Bowl wasn't played between 1907 and 1948, which was a huge loss for our great-great grandparents. The two teams couldn't decide how to pay the refs, where the refs would come from, and why the damn "foward pass" was going to be allowed. But its a great game now.
Giants - 49ers is a good one, as was a short lived Raiders - Steelers, but Pitt - Penn State seems to be the best